How to do face

mhorlick

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How to do face

« on: June 25, 2010, 02:45:48 PM »

Hello,

I found the attached pattern in a book called "Fantasy Factory" by Chick and I would like some advice in dealing with the face section.

In the basement, between a dark bedroom and my hobby room (which is painted yellow) I have a wall with an opening measuring 29.5"" wide x 25.875" high.
This hobby room does have some natural light coming into it from an opposite wall. I figure I need to expand the paper pattern by 250% to fit that opening

Anyways, how do I got about dealing with the face? I can use some solder in those areas where the black is not so thick, black glass where it is thicker but there are some white "islands" which would be impossible to do without more lead lines which would run the effect.

Should I consider painting? Never done it and having done it maybe expensive.

Suggestions please.

Thank you,

Mike canada

TheWizard.JPG (248.76 KB, 1525x1966 - viewed 41 times.)
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Gary

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Re: How to do face

« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2010, 03:02:33 PM »

The other way is to use foil sheet and cut it out for the face detail then solder. Here's one project i did that used this method...


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mhorlick

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Re: How to do face

« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2010, 03:36:08 PM »

Yes, that's a definite possibility. I think what I will do is do the face first and if that is successful then do the rest of the pattern.

For foil overlay I've only used for small areas. If I play too much with it in soldering it the foil sometimes floats away. Any secrets on doing foil overlay?

Thanks,

Mike


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Gary

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Re: How to do face

« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2010, 09:07:54 PM »

I cut it on 1/4" plate glass and solder it there first then peel it off carefully and solder it in place.


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zapster

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Re: How to do face

« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2010, 09:48:42 PM »

I use the cut it stick it solder it method..
But it is also done LAST!!!

Works good... two cents

But one part of it should be up against a solder line...
Gives it something "Solid" to grip....

But sometimes that's not possible either so stick and pray.

...zap!


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Re: How to do face

« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2010, 08:50:03 AM »

One word of caution - if you stick it to your beautiful panel and solder it there and you get it too hot, you will have broken glass. For that reason, I always go with Gary's method.

Rebecca


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Gary

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Re: How to do face

« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2010, 09:06:11 AM »

Quote from: Hartache on June 26, 2010, 08:50:03 AM

One word of caution - if you stick it to your beautiful panel and solder it there and you get it too hot, you will have broken glass. For that reason, I always go with Gary's method.

Rebecca

Thanks Rebecca, I failed to mention that.
Using float glass (1/4") also makes a nice base to cut the foil on with an exacto blade. It's quite simple... You glue down the foil sheet needed to the glass and burnish it well to get any wrinkles out. Then transfer the design to it using graphite paper. Cut the design and remove the unwanted foil and solder. Even though the 1/4" glass is pretty tough, try to solder fast so you don't crack it. You need to bead up enough to preserve the shape. Once plated on your project you can do a little touch up but again keep from heating it up too much. The raised solder effect really looks good when done.


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mhorlick

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Re: How to do face

« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2010, 10:45:53 AM »

Hello Gary et al,

Thanks for your advice. Just want to me sure. After I solder it on the float glass I should remove the overlay from it and then attach it to the glass I plan to use for the face either soldering it to an existing line or gluing it on that glass. Is that right?

I plan to use as much black glass as I can (around the side of the face) and also the overlay so it should look black from a distance but am wondering if looking at it close up it would be strange (black flat glass with areas of raised solder)? Should I do it all with the solder?

Also, just out curiousity, what glass would you recommend for the face?

Thanks,
Mike


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Gary

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Re: How to do face

« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2010, 07:46:50 PM »

Yes you solder it completely on the float glass and just tack it where it needs to be blending in the solder as good as possible. This is tricky but try holding your solder iron tip into the plated work just enough to make it liquid. This prevents seams. I hope that made sense...
If you look back at my weather vane you can see very detailed work in the overlay. You cannot see it too well in the photo but even the finest detail has a considerable raised solder bead on it. In my opinion it can all be done with solder.

I like using any shade of green for mystical critters eg. wizards etc. Possibly leaning toward a ghostly white with green highlights???


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mhorlick

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Re: How to do face

« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2010, 05:23:03 AM »

Thank you, Gary, for your advice. I will give the overlay a whirl.

Mike


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Graham

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Re: How to do face

« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2010, 12:53:52 PM »

Here's Graham's method. Works for me, and I do quite a bit of overlay.

Foil Overlay, resized to fit AGF.JPG (177 KB, 472x596 - viewed 32 times.)
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Re: How to do face

« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2010, 04:03:36 PM »

Quote from: Graham on June 27, 2010, 12:53:52 PM

Here's Graham's method. Works for me, and I do quite a bit of overlay.

That is a good method but using plate glass eliminates any chance of heat breakage and gives a very smooth surface to cut the foil on. I wouldn't even attempt the slightest detail doing it in place over irregular surfaced glass unless forced to.


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Re: How to do face

« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2010, 05:19:35 PM »

Quote from: Gary on June 27, 2010, 04:03:36 PM

I've been hearing about heat breakage when overlaying for years. Experienced it once - my first time. Quick, light soldering, let it cool and re-do. Never have breakage. Hang around dawdling with a hot iron and - "crack", otherwise, smooth sailing.

I have always used reasonably smooth glass or the smooth side of rougher glass. A "rolling" surface is no problem because foil can be burnished tight to it. Edgy, like glue-chip I'd never do on the rough side.


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Re: How to do face

« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2010, 06:35:25 PM »

It's not so much how it sticks rather cutting it with an exacto knife. Most of the glass I use has bubbles, crevices, seams and occasional bumps mostly where you really don't want them to be. Float glass is very consistent and goes well under the knife.


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Re: How to do face

« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2010, 11:15:20 AM »

Quote from: Gary on June 27, 2010, 06:35:25 PM

Given that I choose the glass in my projects, I'll choose one suitable for overlaying, and you do it your way. Sound fair??


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annabelle

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Re: How to do face

« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2010, 05:36:00 PM »

If I were doing this piece, I would hand engrave the face area, then color it lightly by hand with something like color magic....Just my 2 cents......annabelle


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Eddison

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Re: How to do face

« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2010, 09:04:43 PM »

Hi Guys,

Just thinking..
To prevent cracking, heat up the glass first with a hair dryer, or hot air gun.
If you are really careful then heat the glass AND heat a large tile, and place the glass on top.
The tile will keep the glass warm, and an even temperature. Or heat glass up, and place on
a blanket.

Now for the very brave ! get one of those small pencil gas torches, and use it to distribute the
solder, quickly over the foil. Using a small blow torch sounds like it would crack the glass,
But because it is so quick, the glass never gets a chance to heat up. the trick with this method is
to know when to stop !
Apply Russian tallow, or bakers fluid (tinning fluid), and watch the solder flow nicely, all over the foil.

Of course I would recommend painting, but you probably fixed the problem by now.

Ed.


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Gary

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Re: How to do face

« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2010, 08:13:00 AM »

Quote from: Graham on June 28, 2010, 11:15:20 AM

Quote from: Gary on June 27, 2010, 06:35:25 PM

Given that I choose the glass in my projects, I'll choose one suitable for overlaying, and you do it your way. Sound fair??

Maybe I wasn't explaining the way I used the overlay correctly. It appears doing it your way to each individual piece may not work for how I have done it in the weather vane. The overlay (3 geese, way points and the rest) is one piece. It was also put in place over the rest of the panel after it was soldered and simply tacked in place. The fine detail eg. "W" & "E" etc. were a challenge to cut neatly and using the plate glass being it is very smooth really helped quite a bit. The added peace of mind knowing I could solder away and bead up was a plus. You cannot see it too well in the photo but the geese and especially the globes are beaded very high. I'd say thicker than 2 nickles in spots. The roof is also plated and finished with copper patina. That was tricky to do since the rest was black. I'll leave that to another thread...
Getting back to the Wizard face, I too would opt to painting first. My guess is some don't have access to a kiln, the solder plating was only an option.


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