Using a copyrighted picture

[rainbowreaction]

Hello everyone.  There is a lot of really good information on this board.  I have a similar question.  I found a puzzle that has a picture on it
that I really like.  I'd like to take it and modify it (it will have to be heavily modified) and create a stained glass pattern and piece from it to
sell.  Do I need to contact the puzzle company to get permission?  Should I try to find out who the painter is, and contact them instead?

TIA.

[Alan]

I'm no copyright expert by any stretch of anyone's imagination, but from what I've seen on the internet, unless you have WRITTEN permission from the artist (or their estate if deceased) of the original painting you cannot even make something that looks like the original painting. So unless you know who the artist is, you will probably need to contact the puzzle company to find out who the artist is/was and proceed from there. This can be a very long and tedious process and disappointing in the long run (again from what I've seen on the internet).

[Graham]

One word about copying anyones "intellectual property": DONT!!!

[JoanFrances]

coping anyone's work is a poor way to get known for sure.

Anything that has been commercially produced has a wealth of legal people behind it.  Not worth the fight that could presue. 

With the internet being what it is there would be no place to hide if you were to get caught doing that

Doing it to a fellow glasser will bring the entire industry down on you real quick.  We all look out for each other as much as we can. 

Like someone already said, trying to get permission can be more time consuming than drawing your own pictures would be.

Changing pieces does not make it a different thing either. 

Now lets say you see a book with business card holders and you say "Wow what a great idea and you design your own card holders" that is different, than doing it with the same design that is in the book. 

I recently saw where one young lady traced a pattern that belonged to someone else and tried to claim it was her design becuase she did the panel.  NOPE, not her's and boy did she lose her credibility very fast.  She also lost her membership on a different forum because of it.

The long and short of it, like Graham said DON'T

[rainbowreaction]

Isn't it amazing what some people do.  I don't even let my daughter copy music without
paying for it.

Just to make sure no one has the wrong impression, I wasn't talking about a stained glass
piece, I'm talking about a painting that a puzzle company used.

(** GASP!  I'm such a stained glass snob!  I wouldn't dream of copying someone's
stained glass piece, but WOULD wonder about a painting!  (I just realized this, as I was
doing this email.  Amazing.)  -> My original response continues --> **) 

I wasn't planning on doing it without asking the artist, but I hadn't seen paintings or
photographs covered here and I was curious if anyone had ever investigated that, or
had experience with it.  It sounds like you have.  I hadn't thought about the other
licensees that would be involved either!  Horrors!  You'd have to get written
permission from everybody and their neighbor!

(**  Graham you are Ssooo-o-o right!  Sorry everyone for taking up your time.  **)

Thank you for your responses and your right-thinking
(** and the eye-opening self inspection **). 

[DailyLunatic]

Hello everyone.  There is a lot of really good information on this board.  I have a similar question.  I found a puzzle that has a picture on it
that I really like.  I'd like to take it and modify it (it will have to be heavily modified) and create a stained glass pattern and piece from it to
sell.  Do I need to contact the puzzle company to get permission?  Should I try to find out who the painter is, and contact them instead?

TIA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work

Sterling
92.5% Pure

[rainbowreaction]

Another good link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement

[Alan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement

Yes, both are very good links - and as is with most legalese - a good cure for insomnia!

[bluesmaven]

how far does that go? if you do a city street panel do you have to get permission from the building owners?

[Gary]

how far does that go? if you do a city street panel do you have to get permission from the building owners?

I also find the gray areas of copyright very confusing. My take is if you infringe on the original work or trademark basically calling it your own without recognition for the original work or credit, this is wrong. I know it's not that simple and permission is key but as you say a building or recognizable landmark is a product of creativity and shouldn't be replicated in any form of art doesn't make sense. 

The subject is IMHO too vague at times...

[bluesmaven]

What I really want to do is an old house, gingerbread style victorian. In the 1860's they sold kits to build your own house with. Most of the ones in Eureka Springs AR are that type of kit house. So, how would copyright laws affect my doing that?

[Gary]

What I really want to do is an old house, gingerbread style victorian. In the 1860's they sold kits to build your own house with. Most of the ones in Eureka Springs AR are that type of kit house. So, how would copyright laws affect my doing that?

I would assume if you were building houses or offering a kit exactly like the one you describe 150 years ago you might have a problem.
Isn't there a time frame clause that allows you to??? I am not a lawyer so please don't take any of my advice. 

[DailyLunatic]

What I really want to do is an old house, gingerbread style victorian. In the 1860's they sold kits to build your own house with. Most of the ones in Eureka Springs AR are that type of kit house. So, how would copyright laws affect my doing that?

I would assume if you were building houses or offering a kit exactly like the one you describe 150 years ago you might have a problem.
Isn't there a time frame clause that allows you to??? I am not a lawyer so please don't take any of my advice. 

Also not a lawyer, but I have heard that that time frame changed some time ago from 35 years after the artist's death, to 70 years after.  Some exceptions apply such as with Peter Pan.

Sterling
92.5% Pure

[bluesmaven]

I guess I'm gonna have to do some research first.

[JoanFrances]

I read an article some where that if you take a picture, that you can create a panel from your picture, because you are coping your own picture.  When it comes to taking a picture, the picture is your property and there for you can use it to create what ever you want to with it

Say you are on vacation in Rome and take pictures of any of the accent places, you are entitled to produce any art form you so wish to with those pictures.  You are not building the buildings you are producing art with your picture. 

[bluesmaven]

Very cool! That's what I needed to know! I can work with that!

[Graham]

Say you are on vacation in Rome and take pictures of any of the accent places, you are entitled to produce any art form you so wish to with those pictures.  You are not building the buildings you are producing art with your picture.  

This is the Devil's Advocate speaking:

I think you're correct, but then I think of a parallel. While on that vacation in Rome, you take a picture of a Vespa scooter (Or at the mall at home you see and photograph a Harley in the mall's parking area.)

So then you go home and make a stained glass pattern from the picture. What then? You're not building a motor-bike, you're producing art with your picture.

It's all so damned gray!!

[Gary]

Say you are on vacation in Rome and take pictures of any of the accent places, you are entitled to produce any art form you so wish to with those pictures.  You are not building the buildings you are producing art with your picture.  

This is the Devil's Advocate speaking:

I think you're correct, but then I think of a parallel. While on that vacation in Rome, you take a picture of a Vespa scooter (Or at the mall at home you see and photograph a Harley in the mall's parking area.)

So then you go home and make a stained glass pattern from the picture. What then? You're not building a motor-bike, you're producing art with your picture.

It's all so damned gray!!

Grey is a darn ugly color but when used right can be beautiful. 

[Wayne]

how far does that go? if you do a city street panel do you have to get permission from the building owners?

I also find the gray areas of copyright very confusing. My take is if you infringe on the original work or trademark basically calling it your own without recognition for the original work or credit, this is wrong. I know it's not that simple and permission is key but as you say a building or recognizable landmark is a product of creativity and shouldn't be replicated in any form of art doesn't make sense. 

The subject is IMHO too vague at times...

Trademarks are easy....you can not infringe for any purpose not even for your own enjoyment.

[bluesmaven]

I went to B&N today and bought a book called "Patents, Copyrights and Trademarks For Dummies" it's written by 2 Intellectual Property lawyers. It seems to cover a lot of ground and so far is as clear as mud and I'm only reading the intro LOL. If it sheds any light on our subject I'll let you know. It seems to have a lot of good info in it if I can wade through it all.